with Spencer Greenberg
the podcast about ideas that matter

Episode 115: Human bias in the definition of intelligence (with Alene Anello)

July 28, 2022

Are all animals equally intelligent but in different ways? Do some animals perceive the passage of time differently from humans? Are our definitions of intelligence biased towards our own human strengths and therefore not fairly applicable to other animals? Is a baby human's pre-linguistic communication (like crying) analogous to the ways other animals communicate? Is civil litigation the best strategy for defending animal rights? Human lawyers represent their clients, but can other animals be clients? Can other animals be plaintiffs or defendants in human courts?

Alene Anello is the founder of Legal Impact for Chickens, a litigation nonprofit that seeks to make animal cruelty a liability. Before founding Legal Impact for Chickens, Alene graduated from Harvard Law School, clerked for a federal judge, and then started litigating for animals. She has worked at People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), the Animal Legal Defense Fund, and The Good Food Institute. Her undergraduate degree is also from Harvard. Alene is committed to helping chickens to honor the memories of her two beloved avian family members, Conrad and Zeke. Find out more about her and her work at

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Host / Director
Spencer Greenberg

Josh Castle

Audio Engineer
Ryan Kessler

Uri Bram

Janaisa Baril

Lee Rosevere
Josh Woodward
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